Episode #228 – Managing Trial Stress

Bill Kanasky, Jr., Ph.D. talks about how to manage stress during trial. Bill shares the three areas to focus on: physical health, emotional health, and mental health. 

Physical health keys: 

1. Protect your sleep – really important to get plenty of restful sleep. 

2. Exercise – get your body moving, even if its just for a few minutes by taking a walk or a short run. 

3. Eat right – you have to eat well and eat right; ignoring your diet is a recipe for poor performance. 

Emotional health: To preserve your emotional health, focus on making a self health plan. Carve out time for your family, every day during the trial.  

Mental health keys: Maintain positive thinking patterns. Avoid negativity and second-guessing. Control your emotions and avoid amygdala hijack.

Full Episode Transcript

[00:15] Bill Welcome to another edition of the Litigation Psychology Podcast, brought to you by Courtroom Sciences. Dr. Bill Kanasky coming right at you. How’s everybody doing? I gotta tell you, I—I love me—I love me a good apple. Now, I’m more of a green apple guy than a red apple guy, gotta be honest with you. Little Granny Smith, love me some green apples. The problem though, this is my rant for the day… so now they put these stickers on each damn apple, and these things are impossible, and I mean impossible, to get off. Now, I’m a dude, don’t have any nails, right? No nails. And I get this great apple, and I just want to eat the apple, and I cannot get these damn stickers off of the apple. And I end up just putting my thumb right through the apple. I destroy the apple before I eat it. Is it really necessary to have a sticker on each apple with a barcode? Man, are they putting crazy glue on these stickers? You know what I’m talking about. And you could be a red apple person, you’re—you’ve got the same struggle. Man, making me nuts. Gosh. Oranges? No. See, I got my orange right here, no sticker. Bananas? No sticker. Not eating that peel, though.

[02:05] Bill So, all right, uh, what are we talking about today on the podcast? We’re going to talk about—oh, tough topic—managing stress during trial. Trial is stressful. The week before trial is especially stressful, and the process can get to you. So, let’s talk about how to manage stress during the trial process because I gotta tell you, now, if you have a week trial, it still wears you down. Some trials, I mean, are two weeks, three weeks, four weeks. The one I’m working on now is going to be about three and a half months. Like, you got to put your life on hold, and that’s tough, but you can’t put your health on hold. Okay? So, there’s really three areas that you got to focus on to manage your stress during trial: you got to focus on your physical health, you’ve got to focus on your emotional health, and you got to focus on your mental health. Now, I do separate mental and emotional. Remember, there’s three parts of the brain. Your brain stem, okay, that’s where your reflexes are, that’s where your cardiac and respiratory centers are. There’s no cognition in your brain stem; there’s nothing you can do about that. However, the two other parts of your brain—cortical, subcortical—it’s where you get your higher-level logical thinking and your subcortical emotional areas of the brain. Okay? I separate those two. I think it’s important to do that.

[03:57] Bill So, we’re going to talk about all three. So, number one, number one thing you got to do, and everybody screws this up at trial: you have got to protect your sleep. Go just—if—if you have a spare moment, go read some of the sleep research. You get multiple days of six or less hours of sleep a night, man, it really impairs cognition. Okay? Not good for you. I think the whole country has sleep issues. Everybody I know has a sleep issue. I sleep like a baby. And not a whiny baby, screaming baby; no, like one of those babies that just sleeps. Okay? But I protect it. I pro—absolutely protect it. And that’s seven, eight hours of sleep every night, and even at trial. And I know there’s a lot of work to do, you’ve got to protect your sleep. No sleep, no nothing. You’re getting four hours of sleep at night, or you’re staying up till 2:00 preparing your cross-examination script for the next day, you’re not going to be sharp the next day. Okay? Got to work efficiently. Got to delegate work to team members. Protect your sleep. It’s really, really bad for you if you don’t sleep well. Okay? Particularly at trial. Number one, got to protect sleep.

[05:33] Bill Number two: you have got to move. Yeah, you still got to exercise. I’m sorry, you still got to exercise during trial. Make the time. It doesn’t have to be a long time. Even if it’s 15 minutes, get on the treadmill, go for a walk, go lift some heavy things till it hurts. You’ve got to. I mean, trial just physically kicks your ass. And if you’re going to go weeks in trial and you’re not going to exercise, you’re gonna pay for it. You’re—you’re gonna feel like dog [ __ ]. I’m just telling you. Also, exercise will keep you sharp mentally, and it’s going to help you sleep. See, all these things work together. You’ve got to figure it out. You’ve got to figure out—now, some of you may wake up early in the morning to do this. That would not be me. I do not exercise in the morning because I like to patter, I like to drink coffee, I like to think early in the morning. I do not like to go to the gym. I like to do that later in the day. So, if you’re at trial, you may be one of these morning people. That’s great. I think it’s going to help you the rest of the day. You’ll be up, be at trial, you’ll be ready, you’ll be on your toes. Others, maybe not so much. Do it in the evening before you start your work, after the day of trial is over.

[07:23] Bill I worked with an attorney out in Arizona. We’re working on a trial together. Wasn’t a long trial, like two weeks. Every day after trial, he and I went for a 30-minute walk. Come hell or high water. Left the courtroom, went right to the hotel, got changed before we looked at one document, had one discussion, and we’d go walking for 30 minutes every single day. Works. Keeps you loose, makes you feel better. It’s good for you. Okay? You got to give yourself a break. Keep exercising. It doesn’t have to be a lot. It could just be 15-minute walk. Anything—anything is going to be better than nothing. But we know this: when you get into trial mode, you start skipping out on your sleep to get more work done, you completely skip the exercise. You’re all guilty of it, every one of you, you know it.

[08:31] Bill And then another thing that gets just terribly skipped—horrible—your diet. Do you know how many trial attorneys I know that just completely skip lunch at trial? They just work. It’s not good for you. If you want to think better, gotta eat right. You want to think better, you got to move. You want to think better, you gotta sleep. All this stuff works together, folks. But people get in the trial mode and, boy, they’re just work, work, work, work, work, and you start skipping very important health behaviors. I absolutely feel the more physically healthy you are, the better you’re going to do at your trial. The better mental acuity you’re going to have versus running yourself into the ground. Okay? It’s really, really important. Really, really important.

[09:36] Bill So how do you accomplish this? You got to make a plan. Plan number one, okay: I am protecting my sleep. I am going to sleep. You pick your time, and you got to get—yeah, six hours not enough. Okay? Get at least seven. Go look at the research. Seven hours. So, you figure that out, and that’s your protected time. No one’s messing with that. You’re not working past that time. Okay? Number two: you plan your exercise activity. Want to wake up early in the morning and go for that walk? Go. You’re more the afternoon-evening person? Save it till then. You protect it. And then number three: do whatever needs to be done to get your healthy eating in, and do not be skipping meals. You attorneys are bad with that. “I don’t eat during trial.” I mean, do you know how many times I’ve heard that? Don’t eat lunch. Well, if you’re not, what do you do? “I—I work during the lunch break.” Okay, well, okay. I—you can work and eat at the same time. Really important stuff. Okay? It’s too stressful. Cannot be skipping out on these physical things that you can be doing. Okay? So, take care of your physical health. And by the way, you folks should be doing this even when you’re not in trial. Attorneys, you know who you are. It’s a stressful job; I’m aware of that. Okay? I work with you guys every day. Got to take better care of yourself. Life is too short to be putting 100% towards work and then physically you suffer. You don’t look good, you don’t feel good, your sleep’s off, your energy levels suck, you’re groggy all day, you’re moody. Okay? Really, really important to take care of yourself during trial. Yes, there’s work to be done. Yes, there’s work—I—I understand that. Delegate. Make a very strict schedule on when you’re actually going to work, and don’t skip out on the health behaviors.

[12:16] Bill All right, it’s area number one. Area number two: emotional health. You’ve got to stay calm and poised. You cannot get worried at trial. As we all know, there’s going to be great days, there’s going to be good days, there’s going to be so-so days, and there’s going to be [ __ ] days. You know that. Can’t be overreacting. Can’t turn into a worrywart. Okay? We’ve got to stay poised. We’ve got to stay calm, even when bad things happen. That’s part of trial. You got to keep your client calm. Client’s bouncing off the walls? You keep them calm. You got to keep your team calm and focus on the plan. Focus on the plan. It’s very difficult to do if your anxiety is through the roof. It’s very difficult to do anything when your anxiety is through the roof. Anything. Hence why I’m so busy training witnesses all week.

[13:49] Bill Man, it’s like 175 degrees outside in Orlando right now. 175. That’s the official temperature. At least that’s my story, I’m sticking to it. Brutal, brutal. But talk to me in February. Talk to me in February because I’ll be just fine being right here in Florida. Um, yeah, emotional. And it’s—it’s—it’s hard. There—there’s a lot of pressure. Pressure from maybe the insurance client, your client that’s sitting there with you at trial, your witnesses, your team. Got to keep it together, folks. Got to keep it together. Got to keep it together. But it’s hard. Trials are stressful, and if you run yourself down emotionally, you’re not going to do as well as you could. You’re not going to reach your peak potential. Now, we combine the anxiety, the worry—combine that with the physical health issues I just covered. You start skipping meals, you’re not exercising, your sleep sucks—you’re going to be a mess. You are going to be a mess. So again, how—how do we do this? You’ve got—everybody has a plan for a trial, but they generally don’t have a health—a self-health plan. You got to be the best—best version of you. Okay? Best version of you.

[15:41] Bill Now, what’s another way to accomplish this emotionally? Now, you’re not going to have a lot of time to do this. Carve out time for your family, your friends. You may have to tell your friends to “piss off” for a couple weeks cause you’re busy, but family comes first. Your spouse, your significant other, your kids. Tell you this: no matter how stressed and emotional you are about your trial, a big hug from your—from your kids, that’ll solve that problem really quickly. Okay? And maybe you only get 30 minutes with them, maybe offsite, and you have to hop on Zoom with your family to get that FaceTime. Okay? Don’t skip that. They’re your main support. They’re your main support, your family. Sometimes we forget that. I’ve been guilty of that. Okay? Make time for your family where you’re not thinking about—about your trial. Now again, you may not have much time, but a little bit every day will make a huge difference, just like the exercise, right? Okay? And you have to have the right mindset going into the trial.

[17:20] Bill Now, third area: mental. Okay? Your cognition health. You’ve got to maintain focus and positive thinking patterns. What I see on trial teams is a lot of negativity, a lot of “what-ifs,” a lot of second-guessing. “Oh wow, that plaintiff opening was really strong. Oh no, we’re screwed. What if the jurors think this? What if the jurors think that?” Not healthy. You have the plan, you got to stick to it. Can’t—see, this is—this is where it’s exactly what witnesses do when—when your witnesses are being deposed and they panic and go off their reservation. Attorneys do that too. Then you start changing things. You worked up this plan, you had a plan. It’s a solid plan. Hopefully, you tested it with the mock jury. You know the plan. And then you panic. You panic. And then rather than sticking with the game plan, you start throwing deep on every play, right? You had the game plan, but you abandon it because you fell into the trap of negative thinking. And boy, it messes with your head. “What if, what if, what if? Maybe I should do more. Maybe I should ask my clients even more questions on direct exam. Maybe I should double the length of my opening to show how much I care.” And then you start making dumbass decisions. Why? Emotion. Remember, when emotion kicks in subcortically, you will get into various levels of amygdala hijack. Your amygdala and hippocampus take over your whole system, and then you start making illogical decisions. Emotions and decisions are a terrible, terrible combination. This is why you don’t want to buy anything significant when you’re emotional, because you either buy something really stupid or you’re gonna overpay for it because you’re not thinking. It’s all about emotion, right?

[20:05] Bill And it’s hard. It’s hard. Again, pressure-packed situation. And you have got to keep it together. And so, uh, mentally you have got to think positive, maintain your high-level cortical thinking, and stick with the strategic game plan. Do not get bent out of shape. Do not go off the rails. Stick to the plan. Don’t let your mind play tricks on you. Now, what amplifies this is your team. Maybe you’re the first chair and your second chair is in your ear, “blah blah blah.” Remember the Charlie Brown teacher? Yeah, Charlie Brown. Charlie Brown’s teacher’s in your ear, and then that starts fueling your negative thinking, right? So, you’ve got to—so everything I’m telling you to do here—physical health, emotional health, mental health—it’s not just for you. It’s for your team. Your second chairs, your paralegals. Okay? So, what I would suggest, as you work up to trial, is to have a discussion with your team. Talk about physical health. Talk about everybody’s—”Hey, we’re all going to eat the right way, we’re all going to protect our sleep, we’re all going to get some form of exercise or physical activity in because we gotta be on top of our game, we gotta be healthy.” And you discuss it with the team.

[22:07] Bill My phone’s—phone is blowing up. That’s how you know you’re doing something right. There’s two ways you—there’s two ways you know you’re doing something right. Number one, your phone just rings constantly. That’s one way to know that you’re—you’re doing something right. The second way is you get criticized by a lot of people because they’re paying attention to you. Like Ric Flair says—Ric Flair, woo!—you may not like it, but you better learn to love it, cuz it’s the best thing going today. Woo! Miss Ric Flair. Miss Ric Flair. He’s still out there. Barely. You seen him? He looks terrible. He looks terrible. He’s always getting in trouble, always getting into trouble. But it’s important to have this discussion with your team. Keep everybody’s head straight. Okay? Team meetings—morning of trial, right after trial. Okay? Keep everybody reeled in mentally, emotionally, physically. Make sure everybody’s on target. Okay? It’s really, really important. It’ll really, really pay off, particularly with your energy levels at trial. Trial is exhausting—physically, mentally, emotionally exhausting. And if you’re not addressing these issues day after day after day after day after day, you start to wear down.

[23:54] Bill Imagine a witness at a deposition. Imagine if they went three hours straight answering questions and never took a break. What do you think’s going to happen? They’re going to suck. They’re physically worn down, they’re mentally worn down, they’re emotionally worn down. That’s why breaks are so important, right? Same thing for you, trial attorneys. When you’re in trial, you’ve got to keep it together on these three levels. You got to stay on the same page. You got to communicate effectively, not emotionally. It’s another problem I see on trial teams: a lot of emotional communication. Again, that’s what that negative thinking—the negative thinking gets you emotional. Amygdala hijack, boom, there you go. Remember, the emotion comes secondary to cognition. Let me repeat that: emotion comes secondary to cognition. Meaning how you perceive a stimulus will determine on whether you get emotional or not. It’s not the opposite way. Something happens at trial, you cognitive—it’s called cognitive appraisal. Your logical part of your brain, cortical, will appraise the situation and determine what to do with it. And if you’re a negative thinker, your brain’s gonna go, “Oh [ __ ], I don’t like this,” and then boom, amygdala, hippocampus say, “Hi, I’m taking over, move over logical brain,” and boom, now the emotions kick in. A lot of cortisol production from the hypothalamus. God, being a neuroscientist is so much fun, right?

[25:52] Bill All this stuff is preventable. And listen, I—I want you guys to be healthy—mentally and physically, emotionally healthy—but no one talks about this stuff. No one thinks about this stuff. Everybody just gets so laser-focused on trial, it’s work, work, work, work, work. And you get up at 4:00 AM and you work, work, work, then you go to trial, you skip lunch, work, work, work, work, work. Get off at trial, go back to your office, your hotel, work, work, work, work, work, work, work. You stuff a McDonald’s disgusting grease burger in your cake hole, hammer down some fries, work, work, work, work, work, and then go and sleep for four and a half hours, and then you do that for two and a half, three weeks. That’s terrible. Hey, by the way, go do that when you’re not in trial, let me know how you feel. It’s terrible. Plan ahead, take care of yourself in these three areas. You’re going to be far more effective in the courtroom.

[27:05] Bill By the way, oh, by the way, since I talk to jurors every week—they notice when you feel like dog [ __ ]. They notice. It’s obvious. Why? Because you look like dog [ __ ] and you sound like dog [ __ ]. You’re at counsel’s table, your posture is off, your facial expression sucks, you’ve got bags underneath your eyes. You’re questioning witnesses, your tone’s off. The jurors pick up on all this, right? How do you want to present in front of jurors? You want to appear healthy, you want to appear energetic and into it. You want to appear mentally and emotionally strong and confident. You can’t do that if you’re sleeping four and a half hours a night and skipping meals and thinking negatively. So, all of these things I’m talking about, they all work together. And they do one of two things: they work together to exponentially multiply into something bad, or they work together to exponentially multiply into something positive. That’s how it works. That’s how it works.

[28:59] Bill And I think it makes a big difference in the way you’re going to perform in the courtroom. I think it makes a massive difference how a jury perceives you. And I think by doing these healthy behaviors, you’re going to perform much, much better in the courtroom. You’re going to look better, you’re going to sound better, you’re going to feel better. That’s going to have a lot of benefits. All right, short podcast today, but you know, I’m a health nut. Very big on this stuff. Very big on this stuff. You want to talk about this more? Always reach out. Tell you what I do, tell you what I’ve seen other attorneys do. Okay? Really, really important topic. No one talks about it. No one talks about it. Well, we’re talking about it here on the Litigation Psychology Podcast. All right guys, Litigation Psychology Podcast brought to you by Courtroom Sciences. Dr. Bill Kanasky. I am out. See you next time.