Episode #171 – Parachuting Attorneys

Bill Kanasky, Jr., Ph.D. talks about attorneys who “parachute” into a case late. These parachuting situations are happening more often, especially when the excess carrier gets involved and brings in their heavy hitter, but the geographic and culture differences of an outsider can have a material impact on jurors. It is possible for parachuting attorneys to win over a jury but there are some very specific things that must be taken into consideration by the outside attorney: 

1. Be authentic – Do not try to appropriate the local geography/culture (e.g. east coast attorneys should not wear cowboy boots if they are trying a case in Texas or Montana). Be cognizant of cultural differences such as the speed at which they speak, etc.; 

2. Be passionate; jurors want passion from the attorneys representing both parties;

3. Be respectful; do not talk down to the jury;

4. Utilize local counsel; local counsel needs to play a significant role in the case because it will help with diversifying the team. It’s important to not have a table full of attorneys from outside the venue. 

Full Episode Transcript

[0:15] Bill Welcome to another edition of the Litigation Psychology Podcast. Dr. Bill Kanasky with you again, going solo, giving Dr. Wood a break. That dude needs some sleep. Worked very hard, always works hard. This podcast is brought to you by Courtroom Sciences. And what are we going to talk about today? Well, we’re gonna talk about something interesting. The whole concept of the parachuting attorney. The attorney that parachutes into the case late. And again, this is going to be another episode that’s going to apply to both plaintiff and defense attorneys. I know it’s kind of weird, but hey, some of these topics go both ways. And I told you, I do do some plaintiff work in commercial litigation, folks. So, right, I can help both of you.

[1:18] Bill Parachuting attorneys. So, the problem we have is one of geography and culture, okay? I remember there is this, uh, big, uh, case, uh, which I will not name, uh, in Texas, uh, several years ago where the, uh, defendant parachuted in this group of L.A. attorneys. These attorneys from Los Angeles and they all came in and they walked into court. This is no joke—no, they walked in the court wearing cowboy boots. Let me repeat that. The L.A., the surfer guys, right? L.A. surfer guys came in, attorneys, and they had all that, all black cowboy boots to blend in. Well, first off, they could barely walk, right? They can barely walk. They were uncomfortable. Everybody knew they were from L.A. I mean, that was obvious from the start. And then once they introduced themselves and, uh, jury’s kind of laughing like, “Come on.” But here’s the whole concept: is a jury okay with an outsider?

[2:34] Bill This happens all the time and it’s happening more and more and more. A couple of these, uh, yeah, you Iowa folks. Yeah, I do some work in Iowa, not nearly enough. There’s reasons for that, which shall go, uh, that will not be discussed on this podcast. But if you’re from Iowa, you can call me, we can have that discussion. We’ve had that discussion with several local counsel up there. But there’s a couple of these cases in Iowa where you got, you know, Chicago guys coming in, plaintiff attorneys trying the case, hitting—I think, I think Iowa suffered like three back-to-back-to-back very, very large nuclear verdicts, like record-breaking. And I want to say two of the three of those were med mal. Yeah. And so this concept of parachuting in, uh, has been happening for some time. I’ve mostly seen it on the defense side. Excess carrier gets involved and says, “Okay, not screwing around. I’m bringing in my heavy hitter from Chicago, from Atlanta, from L.A., Miami, wherever.” And then they’re going to send that person to some place oftentimes where the culture is very different.

[4:01] Bill You send a New York City trial attorney, an aggressive New York City trial attorney, to try a case in Birmingham, Alabama, Mobile, Alabama, Tuscaloosa, Alabama. This is kind of like you got the whole My Cousin Vinny effect going on here, right? Which, by the way, it did not work for him very well early in that movie, but it worked in the end. But you’re not My Cousin Vinny. This is real life. “The two, the two utes.” “The two what?” “Two youths, Your Honor.” Oh, that movie’s hilarious. But that’s a problem here. Now, here’s what I’ll tell you. I—but these Iowa people are really gonna not like me after these—after this podcast, okay? So Iowa’s like a subdivision of Chicago, okay? It’s what it is. The Cubs’ AAA team plays there in Des Moines. All right, Iowa is a suburb of Chicago. So when the Chicago guy comes in or the Chicago gal comes in to try the case, they almost look up to them. “Hey, they’re from the big city,” right? Okay.

[5:24] Bill Now, that’s one way of looking at this. However, what I’m really referring to, because it doesn’t hurt you in that scenario, but when you’re sending the Chicago attorney, okay, you’re sending the Chicago attorney, uh, to Columbia, South Carolina, okay, to Valdosta, Georgia. Okay, now we may have problems, um, because the hypothesis here is that jurors don’t like outsiders and that the opposing—again, this is plaintiff or defense counsel, it happens on both sides—that the attorney, one of the attorneys, is going to use that against the other attorney. So say you have a case, right, and the defense, the defense parachutes in big shot attorney from New York City and this case is in Greenville, North Carolina. Well, the plaintiff attorney, local in Greenville, North Carolina, is going to look at the jury and say, “They, they, they’re so scared they had to bring in this big shot from North Carolina or from, uh, from New York City. Well, I am here. Yeah, I’m from the Tar Heel State. My office is right down the street.” Does it have an impact on jurors? It, in, in many cases, it really, really does, okay?

[6:53] Bill But kind of like My Cousin Vinny, the parachuting attorney can win over the jury. They can, but it’s gonna be a little rough at first. So there’s some things as the parachuting attorney you should not do. Number one: don’t buy a pair of cowboy boots. If you have a case in Texas or Oklahoma and, and you’re from, you’re from Chicago or Indianapolis, don’t go buy cowboy boots to blend in, okay? If, if, if you’re an attorney in San Francisco and they’re bringing you, uh, in, uh, to, to try a case in Asheville, North Carolina, okay, do not go out and buy a bunch of, yeah, UNC blue, uh, “Go Heels” uh, uh, ties for court, okay? That’s not, it’s not how you’re gonna do it. They, they need to see you as a human being, who you are.

[8:01] Bill But yeah, during jury selection, a lot of this is happening during jury selection where, just like any case, they’re getting to know you. These jurors are sniffing you out. And here’s the thing: as the parachuting attorney, you have to, you have to hit this head-on. I think it’s okay to make fun of yourself a little bit, right? I mean, make light of it. Again, whether you’re a plaintiff attorney that’s coming in on a case, parachuting, or a defense attorney, you really need to connect with that jury. Now again, you need to connect with any jury during voir dire, any jury, even if it’s two local attorneys. Everybody knows that. But it’s the parachuting attorney that has a couple of more hurdles. Culturally, how they talk.

[8:51] Bill I did a mock trial in, in Birmingham, Alabama. And after the mock trial, we did a post-verdict kind of focus group discussion with the, with the mock jurors. And I asked them, you know, “What, what feedback do you have for the attorneys, yeah, on the presentation style, you know, things like that?” And one of the attorneys was a parachuting attorney from the Northeast. Damn good attorney, too. And the number one thing they said, they said that that dude just needs to slow down. We don’t talk that fast down here in Birmingham. He came in and talked a mile a minute. I am trying to take notes. Way too fast, right? You got to think about, “Where am I going? Where am I going?” It also works the opposite way. Take the Birmingham attorney and send them to New York City. Cultural shock, okay? Cultural shock. Got this north-south thing going on, too. It’s a real deal.

[10:13] Bill The key is you got to be your authentic self and you’ve got to be able to connect with the jurors. If you’re going to a different venue where things are very different and you don’t blend in, you do not blend in. This is ongoing because some of these—a lot of these nuclear verdicts are being won by parachuting plaintiff attorneys coming in to a case late from someplace else, okay? And, and I know this for a fact: the big defense wins that you never hear about, by the way—the big defense verdicts that you’re seeing—are also being won by parachuting attorneys, okay? So both sides are dealing with this issue, okay? You gotta be your authentic self. Do not go dressing like the local, okay? This is not gonna work. Don’t try, don’t do a Brian—did you see the interview on Brian Kelly? It was this opening, uh, uh, ceremony when Brian Kelly, former coach of Notre Dame’s football team, gets hired by LSU this year. And they bring him down, they have the, the opening press conference, “We’d like to introduce, you know, Brian Kelly, our new coach for LSU football.” And Brian Kelly starts talking, he starts talking like this: “I love LSU, I’ve always loved LSU.” He’s doing this on Twitter. I mean, people, Twitter just roasted this dude going, “What, what a jerk. Like, what an idiot,” right? I mean, he’s faking the—okay, that’s another—yeah, you’re not gonna fake the accent, folks.

[11:54] Bill Be yourself because here’s what jurors want. Couple things jurors want. Number one: they want authenticity. They gotta not care where you’re from. They gotta not care where you’re from. They want authenticity. Be yourself. You have to ooze authenticity, number one. Number two: they want passion. They want you to passionately advocate for your client, okay? They want authenticity, they want passion. Number three: they want respect. Don’t ever talk down to a jury. You may be from the big city and you’re trying to case in rural, you know, Podunk, USA, okay? They want respect. You’re authentic, you’re passionate, and you’re respectful. Any jury can like you and respect you in return and listen to you. But you screw up one of those three things, they’re gonna think this is a clown show and they’re right.

[13:20] Bill Buying cowboy boots. You go look up the Brian Kelly video when Brian Kelly was hired at LSU. It’s hilarious. The fake Southern accent. I mean Mark Perkins, okay, Mark Perkins, who’s been a guest on this show, trial attorney out of Shreveport, Louisiana, will tell you about this and he will laugh because he was appalled. He was appalled. Brian Kelly, come on. “Can’t wait to run the spread offense down here in LSU.” Come on, Brian Kelly, who you fooling, right? But that’s what a lot of attorneys think: “I gotta go there and blend in. I gotta blend in,” right? Well, that didn’t work for My Cousin—in fact, My—Joe Pesci, you know, he wins that. We know why he won the case in the movie. But the jury ultimately falls in love with him, why? Because he was his—he was himself. He was himself. He didn’t change, okay? He didn’t try to pretend like he was from Alabama. He wasn’t wearing a Roll Tide tie in court. We wore some other things, right?

[14:48] Bill So if you’re an attorney and you’re coming in to a different venue that’s—again, if you’re going from Chicago to Des Moines, no one cares. Hell, we’re going from Chicago to Indianapolis, no one cares, okay? Go from Chicago to San Antonio, I, I think that’s a bit different. You’re going from New York City to El Paso, Texas. Yeah, a little bit of culture shock. You’re going from L.A. and you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re going to Raleigh, North Carolina. Well, yeah, those are big differences, okay? Be authentic, be passionate, be respectful, and you can win over any jury.

[15:49] Bill Now, secondarily, there’s a very important second step to this process. Yeah, you have got to utilize local counsel. Let me repeat that. Gotta take a swig of my coffee first. Local counsel needs a significant role in the case. Now the problem is with parachute attorneys, and you know who you are, you know who you are—you’re control freaks. You are control freaks. You have got to have—look, that’s going to help you, okay? Diversify your team. Have local counsel and have them do something. Have them examining some of the witnesses, you know, introduce—I mean, you have to come across as a team so they don’t care where you are from. But does help get local. So it’s not, it’s not a table full of attorneys from L.A. No, there’s two attorneys from L.A. and there’s, you know, there’s two or three folks and maybe some paralegals locally and you’re viewed as a team.

[17:14] Bill I had this case that settled and it was in Wisconsin and they parachuted this dude in from New York City and he’s wanting like, “Fire everybody. Like no, I’m doing—me and my team are doing everything.” And like, “You think that’s a good idea?” “That’s just how I do it.” “Oh, that’s how you do it? Well, it would help if we had local counsel involved you know and by the way, yeah, the local counsel really knows the venue very well, you know, knows the jurors, uh, you know, practices here a lot, knows how to communicate.” “No, no, my, my, my team, my team does it my way.” Okay, now that case ended up settling on the courthouse steps but that could have been a recipe for disaster because these jurors may have looked at that team and said, “Wow, you know, no one locally. Oh, and then you know these folks are not really talking to us the way we’d like to be talked to.” There’s your respect issue, okay? So I think the key is, again, plaintiff attorney, defense attorney, regardless of who you are, you need to work in local counsel to have them have a significant role, okay? Have them have a significant role.

[18:29] Bill Now here’s where the key question comes and, boy, this is a double-edged sword. I don’t—I’m just going to warn you and I don’t have a definitive answer. Should the local counsel do jury selection and then parachuting counsel does the opening? The answer is yes and the answer is no. The answer is yes because, yeah, the local counsel knows how to interact with these people already. That’s what he or she does and what they’ve been doing the last 10, 20, 30 years. The answer is yes: have them pick the jury. But the answer is no because then the parachuting counsel doesn’t have the opportunity to interact with the jury prior to the opening.

[19:29] Bill Again, both sides, plaintiff, defense, you’re both dealing with the same—it’s really a sandwich, like what do you do with this, right? What do you do with this? Um, my recommendation in many cases has been to have the local counsel help prepare for jury selection, work with parachuting counsel very closely on how to interact with people in this venue, and have the parachuting attorney do the jury selection. A well-educated, well-educated parachuting attorney that’s worked very, very hard with local counsel—I know what to ask, what to not to ask, what to say, what not to say—because it is critical, folks, that the person doing the opening statement has a relationship with the jury prior to the opening.

[20:39] Bill It’s a risk. You’re taking a risk. But it’s a calculated risk. Are there circumstances in which you’re going to reverse that? You’re going to let the local counsel pick the jury and then the first time the jury hears from your parachuting counsel is during opening. You can do that. I’ve seen it work both ways. It’s risky. It’s risky both ways. Imagine that you’re giving an opening statement to a jury in an unfamiliar place and the first time they hear from you is during the opening. I mean, talk about thin ice, right? You haven’t had any opportunity to warm up to this jury? You’ve been sitting at the table during jury selection. That’s, uh—that’s a tough position to be in. It’s a tough, tough position to be in.

[21:41] Bill The parachuting attorney—this concept’s not going away. In fact, it’s only going to grow. And the reason why it’s going to grow is because nuclear verdicts are happening largely because of big-time parachuting attorneys coming in to try these cases, and defend—the defense is having huge defense verdicts because of the defense parachuting people in. This is a phenomenon that is not going away, but it does bring up some new issues, some new challenges. It does. Uh, quick story and then I’m gonna, uh, leave you guys alone. Again, did a mock trial recently, um, in the Southeast. Parachuting attorney came to the mock, um, played his role—at the—he was, he was the lead defense attorney in the mock trial. And these jurors could not stand him. I mean just could not stand. Thought he was condescending, that he spoke down to them. Didn’t like his attitude. Now, he did the exact same thing he would have done back home. He was talking to this jury in the Southeast the same way he was talking and interacting to the jurors in his hometown.

[23:22] Bill Didn’t work. Thankfully, thankfully it was a mock trial and the 100 to what, 200 million, million dollars in damages we got hit with, hit with, was monopoly money. Lesson learned. Imagine if you didn’t know that. That case settled, thankfully, but imagine if you didn’t know that. You’re going into trial and your exposure’s a hundred million dollars or more and you haven’t tested your, your parachuting attorney’s performance and perceptions of the jury—you haven’t tested that the mock trial? Are you, are you freaking nuts? Insurance company: “I don’t want to pay for a mock trial.” [Laughs.] You better—wow.

[24:23] Bill I gave a speech the other day— I gave a speech the other day I left—when I leave the stage, many people always have questions and that’s, and that’s phenomenal. That means you gave a good speech. And this has happened several times. Guy comes up to me and he shakes my hand, he’s, “Man, that was one of the greatest talks I’ve ever seen in my, like, my career. Like, that was that helpful.” I say, “Thank you very much.” He goes, “Because I got to tell you though, not a big fan of the podcast.” Oh, I go, “Why?” He goes, “Because I, I work in the insurance industry and you guys beat us up so much in your podcast.” I go, “Well, wait, no I don’t. Because how do I beat you up? I, I just call—like, I see—A, I call it like I see it and I know I’m right. B, the plaintiff’s bar knows the same thing. They’re the ones, they’re, they’re down the street laughing at you guys. They’re taking advantage of your system that’s reactive instead of proactive.”

[25:22] Bill So you like what Ric Flair—remember Ric Flair, professional wrestler Ric Flair? Barely alive, uh, looking good now, but boy he had some rough years. But oh, when I was growing up as a teenager, he was great, right? Ric Flair would say, “If you don’t like it, you better learn to love it because it’s the best thing going today.” So I almost went Ric Flair on this insurance claim specialist because he was mad at me because he said I pick—no, I don’t. And during my speech, one of the first things I do when I’m on stage is I bring this up because I often have insurance people in the audience or I’m at an insurance company and I tell them upfront, I go, “Hey, I’m, I’m just laying out the facts here. You may not like it, but you better learn to love it because this is the system.” I take, in fact, the way I do—I go, “Don’t blame me.” I go—let me flip—I go, “Let me open up the reptile book, page 173. Page 173 in the reptile book. Oh yeah, it lays out exactly what your system is, insurance companies, and they’re fully taking advantage of it. It ain’t me, it ain’t me. I’m just—don’t shoot the messenger. They outlined what your system is, they are attacking it, they are succeeding.”

[26:48] Bill Now, let me say this. I work for like three or four badass insurance companies that do things very, very different. Can’t name them, obviously, but boy they are proactive. They take the fight to the other side. Yeah, they got it going on. But if you’re kind of more the traditional insurance company and you’re going to be reactive, boy, you’re, you’re a real target, uh, for the plaintiff’s bar. And plaintiff attorneys, don’t get mad at me because you know I’m right. You, you tell me this stuff. You publish it. It’s all out there.

[27:28] Bill So I guess that’s my rant for the day. Uh, no, I, I, I—the insurance companies I work with are fantastic. Um, you know, I think some of the others need to, need to get their act together. I think they know that too. Big article just came out, which I’m not going to rant about this on this podcast, I’m going to save it with Steve Wood, where some big insurance executive came out—this was on LinkedIn—and the article is like—oh hold on, okay. Then maybe I am going to go on my rant. God damn it, hold on, see, now you got me going, folks. Okay, this article, okay, this is on LinkedIn: “The insurance industry takes on the defense bar.” And this is an interview with some big shot and for one of the—like, he’s like the CEO of one of the major insurance companies and the article’s hilarious. It’s like, “Dude, where have you been?”

[28:30] Bill One of the key quotes in the article is hilarious. This guy, this—this is the CEO of a major insurance company says, “You know, we have to do something about this reptile thing. We need to figure this out and put a stop to this.” I’m like, hello? It’s 2023. This, this started in 2009. I wrote the paper and debunked this whole thing. I, I built the anti-reptile system in 2012. Have published God knows how many articles, given 500 anti-reptile speeches, and this guy comes, “We really got to get a, get our hands around this reptile thing.” Oh God. Oh my. Oh my. And there—hey, there’s Exhibit A, folks. There’s—there’s Exhibit—Your Honor, I rest my case. Get with the game. Wow. Insurance people, don’t be mad at me. I’m just trying to help you. Just trying to help. All right, that’s my rant for the day. That’s the podcast, uh, Litigation Psychology Podcast. I’m Dr. Bill Kanasky. I will see you next time.