Episode #50 – Best Practices for Video Depositions

Video has become common for depositions, mediations, and witness trainings during these days of physical distancing. But appearing on video for these virtual sessions isn’t the same as being in person and requires a specific approach and attention to detail to different things. Jackie Arguijo, Video Production Coordinator for Courtroom Sciences, Inc., joins the podcast to talk about best practices for video sessions including video and audio tips, your environment, lighting, how to limit distractions, testing your internet connection, and so much more. A practical session to help better manage any virtual meeting.

Full Episode Transcript

[00:05] Bill
Welcome to another edition of the Litigation Psychology Podcast, brought to you by Courtroom Sciences, www.courtroomsciences.com, and I am so happy to announce that this is podcast number 50. Uh, that’s a lot, that’s awesome, and who is our special guest for our number 50? No other than our actual, theoretically, our producer of this podcast, Jackie Arguijo. Jackie, um, you poor thing, 50 now, it’s going to be the 50th time you’ve had to pour through video audio files, putting up with me, Dr. Wood. How has, how has that process been going for you? Have you been enjoying the podcast, uh, uh, the podcast series?

[01:02] Jackie
Well, as everybody knows, I’ve had a lot of interesting topics to work with, so yes, it’s been very interesting.

[01:08] Bill
Yes, and the fact that you’re behind the scenes is really important, because what we have seen here is almost depositions, uh, witness trainings being done exclusively via the Zoom, uh, WebEx, maybe there’s some other platforms out there, but very rarely right now have they been going face to face. Um, at least one of the parties seems to always be on Zoom, which, which, um, I think sets up some challenges, both from audio and the video perspectives. Can you tell the audience kind of briefly about your background and training, and what you do, and how you have special training in these topics?

[01:48] Jackie
Yes, um, well I have a degree in video production. Um, when I obtained that degree in 2004, I started working for a litigation company. It was either go out west and film movies or stay here and do litigation. I’ve always kind of had a sweet spot for Law and Order, so I decided to give that a try. Um, from 2004 to 2010, I was a certified legal videographer, which is an organization that’s backed by the National Court Reporters Association, and what their goal is to teach legal videographers all the standards and regulations that goes into recording the deposition.

[02:27] Bill
Well, I think, I think I would have taken the movie gig if I was you.

[02:32] Jackie
You know, I was really tempted, but once I started actually becoming a legal videographer, dealing with real life situations, hearing people’s stories, and knowing that how I record them and making sure that it’s a perfect product makes a difference in their lives really touched me and had my passion since then. So after that, being a legal videographer, I’ve also worked in courts, um, federal court and district court, as a trial operator. So I’ve seen this process from the very beginning all the way to the very end, as far as presenting it at trial. So I know what to expect and how it needs to look to be its best when it comes to being in front of a jury. Um, I’ve also done settlement videos, settlement brochures, day in the life videos, so in an aspect my training and my degree in video production kind of helped me become prepared for making the best presentation in those sense. Um, and as you can tell right now, I’m actually doing this on purpose, because this is what I’ve seen a lot of in Zoom depositions. I see a lot of the witness really in the video right up close, always looking down, because the computers are positioned improperly, and then half of their face is lit and half of them isn’t. Um, so I really wanted to start this way to kind of grab attention. So this is kind of what I’m seeing, which would be completely distracting and improper, and it isn’t what we shoot for in a live deposition, and Zoom deposition shouldn’t be any different.

[04:05] Bill
No, that makes, that makes a lot of sense, and I think we’re kind of in uncharted territory here, because no one’s really, I mean maybe you had to do it once or twice, but now to do it all the time, there’s just, I think, a lot of things that are being learned based on trial and error. So let’s talk about the environment and the setup. Um, so I’m assuming you want a location that’s pretty quiet with, uh, I mean, what kind of lighting, kind of take us through, because I mean, I know everybody doesn’t have a professional studio, right, or a conference room in their home if they are in their home, but what kind of environment tips would you give our audience?

[04:53] Jackie
Sure. So, um, you’re going to want to choose a room that is q quiet, you know, away from all the other distractions in the house. So if you have kids in the house, you have pets in the house, you want to choose a room that’s away from everybody else as much as possible, of course. Um, you’re going to want to choose an area where you can get proper lighting. As you can see here, this room you would think wouldn’t work, it actually can if you just set up a little bit differently, and there’s a couple of things to look for. Um, so that’ll help you out that I’m gonna show you. So the way I’m set up here is because I have light coming in from the window, so I’m lit up from this side and I’m dark on this side, because I have nothing to bounce that light off of. Um, I’ve seen a lot of people set up to where they’re sitting like this, I’m like, oh, I have a window, so I’m gonna show everybody outside, but this is what happens when you sit in front of a window, which is why in depositions we try to keep away from setting the witness right in front of a window. The best scenario for this room is to face to the window. Now, I would say turning on the light above would work, but as I’m going to do that, it’s going to bring a beam this way and I’m going to have the same situation in front of the window. Um, so there you go. Well, actually, I mean, it’s not too bad, except for the shininess that we don’t want the distraction of that. A lot of the time in smaller rooms like I’m in, the light is too much on top and they’re strong, so it ends up crowding you out, just like you were if you were like, you know, this. So our best situation here would be to move towards the window, that way you have the ambient light coming in and that you don’t have too much of a hard shadow on the side. Another goal is to have the computer, the laptop, lifted so that they’re not looking directly down or into the camera, because the laptop is too low, but they’re looking up and they’re talking to the jury. One way to accomplish that, if you don’t have a desk that’s tall enough, is to use books. Um, you have any type of library books that are laying around, school books that are laying around, you can lift it and adjust it to the height that you need, and that’s another way to make sure that we have a proper positioning for the camera.

[07:21] Bill
I am very guilty of this in my podcast, because I have a standing desk, and I got it not so high, so I’m kind of looking down, but I like to yell and scream a lot, so that’s actually, I kind of like that. I may have to keep that angle. What happens if we have someone that, say, is kind of, um, they’re stuck in more of an open area, they don’t have a home office, uh, maybe they’re in their living room or in their kitchen, um, and you kind of have a bunch of other stuff around? What would be some, I mean, I’ve seen dogs walking by, cats, you know, goldfish in the background. But sometimes people don’t have that maybe kind of office space in their home. I’m assuming, you know, like dining room table with some sort of, um, kind of what you just demonstrated, to make sure that the lighting’s appropriate.

[08:25] Jackie
Yes. Um, my suggestion for that would be, if you have to be an open area, try to pick an area with the least distracting things behind you. If you need to clear a wall, sometimes I’ll do that, take off some pictures from the wall real quick, let it be more plain in the background. The whole goal is, and this is something that we learned in CLVS, is that you want the least amount of distractions around the witness as possible, because you want the jury and the judge to pay attention to what’s being said, um, not necessarily what’s sitting around them, and that can be a distraction. So if you have to be in an open area, I always recommend using a headset so that your audio isn’t as echoey and it stays focused. Um, I would recommend making sure that any animals, any pets, are put away so that they’re not walking behind, could be a huge distraction. If you have kids, then ask them to sit in their room for a little while we’re doing the deposition, or kind of just reposition. Um, and that would just be the best efforts that you can. It’s not going to be perfect, you’re not going to have the backdrop, you’re not going to have the lighting, that’s understandable in the Zoom deposition and the time that we’re in right now. You just want to make sure that your witness is prepared, and they test their audio, they test their video ahead of time. You want to make sure that they pick a position that’s going to make them look the best and that has the least amount of distractions in the background. Really, that’s the goals that we’re looking for in a Zoom deposition, and that’s the best that you’re going to be able to do at this point.

[10:00] Bill
Let me ask you a question. How does, say, whether it be a witness, uh, and in fact, um, attorneys are guilty of all these things as well, um, how do they go about the process of testing? Is there a way to kind of do that before you get online with everybody else so you can play with it?

[10:20] Jackie
Sure. There’s a website that you can go to to test the speed of your connection, because you want to make sure that, uh, if in your house, if you can connect to a hard line, that you do. If you have to use Wi-Fi, then that’s fine. Um, we just want to make sure that the speed is up to par. If you go to speedtest.net, then you’ll be able to run the program and it’ll check the speed of your computer and your internet connection, which will help a lot when it comes to setting up for your Zoom deposition.

[10:54] Bill Now, what I’ve done before podcasts or before virtual witness trainings is I’ll go on Zoom and just start a meeting and just have myself, and actually, you know, I’ll play with my lighting, my background, um, just so I know where I want to be, and then I’ll just close it out, and then when the regular session comes, I log in, I’ve already made all my mistakes. I’ve tested my audio, uh, tested the speed, so I think that’s something that’s important, so you actually see what you’re going to look like. I think, unfortunately, the vast majority of people just click on that link and they just, they go, they just roll with it. They think they’re ready to go, and then, because I remember I did one the first podcast, I’m thinking, I look like, um, I look like, this is terrible. I have to play with this. Until I played with it, I really didn’t know what I was doing.

But, yeah, I think that’s something in which the quality of the audio and the video can be increased drastically if just the witness and the attorney do a little homework before the actual deposition.

[12:13] Jackie
Yes, that helps a lot, and you can kind of reference that to a videographer going in an hour ahead of time to set up for a deposition. That’s exactly what we do on site depositions. Um, you go in ahead of time, make sure you have the best setting, make sure everything’s set up right, audio is good, video is good. It’s the same thing if you want. Um, if the attorneys can, if they’re able to get with the witness before, the day before, and check with them, or a paralegal can check with them, that would be setting you up for an ideal Zoom deposition.

[12:49] Bill
Yeah, I think you’re completely right, and it doesn’t take a lot of time, and it’s so, so important. Uh, let’s finish up with a couple of other miscellaneous things. Um, everybody’s guilty of this, and man, I did. I was doing some Zoom CLE seminars, and like an idiot, I left my email on in the background, and every second it was ding, ding, ding, and then something else would pop up, and I was like, ugh. Can you talk about how you really need to turn off all of your other programs on your computer, otherwise you’re going to get these, you know, sometimes your emails will pop, get the little previews, a lot of stuff that you don’t want other people seeing. Can you just talk about the importance of closing out all of those applications?

[13:42] Jackie
Well, it’s very important, so I’m glad you brought it up. Um, making sure those programs are closed, but also making sure the notification settings are closed, because Teams can be turned off, it could be closed, but that doesn’t mean the notification isn’t going to pop up. It still will unless you close the settings or change the settings to not pop up. Um, another miscellaneous thing I want to bring up, witnesses that don’t have an option for a laptop, so they have to record on their cell phone. Um, I’ve seen this time and time again. Just at the very beginning, I highly recommend, highly recommend, if possible, to have them use a laptop, because it’s so much harder to move around with a laptop. Um, with cell phones, they have this device in their hand, and they’re like, oh, I can move around because it’s in my hand, and oh, I need to do something over here in the kitchen, and next thing you know, you’re seeing the whole house, you’ve not even seen their face, you’re seeing their shoulders, and the ceiling, and everything else while they’re answering questions, and that is completely unusable in trial as far as video, because, I mean, that’s too much of a distraction. They’re not even paying attention to what’s being said at that point. Um, if they have to use a cell phone because it’s absolutely the only thing that they have, they don’t have a tablet, they don’t have a laptop, um, they can’t go to the conference room, which is another option, if your firm allows, to have that witness just go to your conference room, y’all still stay in your office areas, and everybody connect on Zoom. Um, is if they have to have a phone, that they set their phone up on a stand. They sell these wonderful little clip things that hold your phone, the Dollar Tree, 99 cents. Uh, they can set the phone up in the stand, they set it up on a table with the books to be the right height and the right position, and they leave it alone. They don’t touch it. They hit record or they hit start video, and that’s it. Um, I’ve seen people on the couch with their phone in front of them, and they’re just like, oh, what’s up, you know. This isn’t that type of, it’s not a FaceTime, this is an actual deposition. Another thing the witnesses and attorneys need to be aware of is their audio. Audio is super sensitive when it comes to recording on Zoom. You’re using your computer microphone, and it’s going to pick up everything. If you start typing, you’re going to hear stuff. If you touch it too much, you’re going to hear stuff. Um, so just be very careful. If you say something to yourself, it’s on there.

[16:31] Bill
It’s, um, yeah, what I find, you’re talking about the couch, and there’s already been some online trials disastrous. People don’t, when people are sitting on their couch, they don’t behave professionally, they don’t act professionally, I don’t think they really communicate professionally. So if you do have a witness, I do agree, get them to a business setting, even if it’s a local court reporting firm or a different law firm, or you just get them someplace. You can stay separated and socially distanced, but to have them in a more legal business setting, they’ll sit up straight, they’ll be at a table. I think people behave differently like that. Uh, finally, last question, and we kind of talked about this earlier, but I want to bring up something specific, is if you are doing this at home, say you’re a witness or you’re an attorney and you’re just at home, right, in your home office or whatever. If you go online, there’s a lot of virtually based school things going on right now, and I don’t know if you’ve seen some pretty hilarious videos of some kid on doing what we’re doing, and then mom gets out of the shower, wrapped in her towel, and the teacher’s going, you know, Bobby, shut your video down, I can see. I’m not sure if that’s happened in deposition yet, but I have heard of some just really not just unprofessional, just kind of embarrassing personal things that you don’t want in these scenes. I think the way to solve that, which is what I just did before this podcast, I went out and talked to my family, and like, don’t bother me, don’t make any, do not open up this door unless the house is on fire. I’m assuming that’s what you would tell your folks, is to warn whoever else is in the house or office, I need quiet, I need peace, don’t be popping your head in, because it’s going to be on the video.

[18:39] Jackie
Correct. Um, it’s just like putting, you know, you’re out of office or that you’re busy signal up on your emails. Um, same protocol as in a deposition on site. You know, your receptionist would be the one to say it, and Zoom, each location, the person participating in the Zoom needs to be the one responsible for making sure that everyone around them understands that they’re going live. You know, a little record sign, or, you know, if you want to take it from Hollywood, recording in progress, or some indication and some sort of preemptive information to everybody else in the location that, hey, we’re going live, recording, do not enter, do not disturb. That would be very helpful and ideal to keep any type of embarrassing situation from happening.

[19:28] Bill It’s just, it’s so hard now, because with everybody stuck home, particularly if you’re doing one of these from home, it’s hard, you know, distracted, particularly if you have multiple kids in the house.

Well, Jackie, thank you so much. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. Uh, excellent information for our clients, as they’re probably going to keep proceeding with virtual depositions for some time, and maybe because of the lack of travel and cost savings, who knows, maybe something like this is going to stick at some level going forward forever. So I think as we continue to do these, both for witness prep and as you do them for depositions, as we gather information, we’ll have it to share with our clients, so that they make sure their deposition prep sessions and regular depositions are being done in the most professional way possible. So, Jackie, if one of our clients has questions about virtual depositions or deposition witness prep and how the setup should be, or they actually want to schedule one, what can they do to do that?

[20:34] Jackie
Um, they just need to reach out to casemanagement@courtroomsciences.com, and we’ll be able to help them out with it.

[20:39] Bill And they can always go to our website, www.courtroomsciences.com.

[20:43] Jackie Just schedule through our website. Um, you can schedule via email or by phone.

[20:47] Bill Outstanding. Thank you so much for being on the podcast, and thank you everybody for being part of another episode, our 50th episode, 5-0, of the Litigation Psychology Podcast. We will see you soon. See you for number 51. Dr. Bill Kanasky, see you next time.