Episode #89 – Evolution of the Trucking Industry

Jay Blobner, Senior Safety & Risk Manager with International Transportation Services Inc., joins the podcast to speak with Steve Wood, Ph.D. about how the trucking industry has changed over the years. Jay shares a bit about his extensive experience in the transportation field and talks about the changes he has seen in the trucking industry over the years. He also gives his thoughts on what he would like to see the industry put more focus on and the biggest challenges he sees in the trucking industry. Steve and Jay talk about how important it is for defense attorneys who are working with trucking clients to know and understand the trucking and transportation industry and how investing in learning more about the industry builds their credibility and helps them during litigation. They also discuss nuclear verdicts and Jay shares what he’s implemented to do more due diligence on drivers prior to hiring and what he emphasizes during onboarding and training. Lastly, Steve and Jay share their thoughts on the opportunities to better market and promote the value that truck drivers and the trucking industry deliver.

Full Episode Transcript

[0:05] Steve Welcome to another edition of the Litigation Psychology Podcast, brought to you by Courtroom Sciences Inc. I am Dr. Steve Wood. And on the podcast, we talk a lot about the topic of safety and how safety relates to nuclear verdicts, and how it crosses all the different industries. And one of the industries we like to talk about is the trucking industry. And oftentimes, we have attorneys on, and we’re talking to the attorneys about how to defend the cases, but not all the time do we have people who are on the other side of the actual litigation and those who see a little bit different aspect of trucking litigation. So I wanted to bring someone on today to talk to me about that. Joining me for the podcast today is Jay Blobner. Jay is a Senior Safety and Risk Manager at International Transportation Services Inc. Jay, how the heck are you? Thanks for joining the podcast.

[0:56] Jay I’m doing good. Hey, listen, thank you very much for the invite. It’s great to meet with you again, and I’m looking forward to our conversation.

[1:05] Steve Yeah, so you have, you have pretty interesting background about how you got to where you’re at now. Could you give the listeners a little bit of a overview about where you started, how you come up, and then where you’re at now?

[1:18] Jay All right, sure will. Yeah, I started uh, when I got out of the Navy. I served in the United States Navy for years, two tours of Vietnam. Then out in 1972, I went to work for uh, New Mexico Transportation there as a ticket agent, also uh, a porter. Did that for oh, about eight months or so and got hired on in December ’72 with the United Parcel Service as a driver. And uh, drove for them for 12 years, then I got promoted as a supervisor going into a driver training supervisor, and then I went into uh, as a operations manager uh, after that. And uh, was with UPS for a total of 26 years. My driving career consisted of uh, over the road and also local package delivery. And then after I left UPS, I got into logistics for a couple years with the company, with uh, dealing with working with third party logistics with RCA. And left that and actually got into, that’s when I really got into the trucking business per se, as I was a warehouse manager with a company for about eight nine months and they promoted me into as a safety director. And uh, been doing that for over 20 years. And uh, you know, I’ve had three companies I’ve worked for. I’ve ended up here at ITS. I retired for a little while and then I decided to come back to work, get back in the business, and uh, you know, it’s been a long career, been a good rewarding career.

[2:48] Steve Yeah, so you know, you’ve been, been around as we would say, and what have you kind of seen really as the two or three kind of biggest changes that you’ve seen throughout your course on, in your career within the trucking industry?

[3:02] Jay Yeah, you know one of the, a couple of two or three things actually is the, the technology that’s out there today compared to what we had, you know, 20 years ago uh, with what we can see now that we couldn’t see before. And uh, you know the technologies are just continuing to get better and better and better. I mean, who, who would ever guess, you know, 20 years ago we would have had autonomous trucks? Uh, you know, and that’s what, it’s a real deal, you know, it’s actually happening today. Several companies are already doing it and uh, you know, it’s going to be something in the future. And you know, I think there’s still some things they’ve got to look at before full implementation, but you know, it’s upon us. And the other thing I think is the CSA: Compliance, Safety, and Accountability. You know, we went from SafeStat into CSA. Going into the CSA, uh, you know, a lot of folks were saying, “Well, it’s something that’s never going to occur, it’s not going to happen, it’s not going to affect our insurance,” those type of things. And unfortunately, those things did sprout and they did come about and are actually fact today. And you know, CSA’s basically our scorecard. It’s our measurement with the DOT. And uh, you know, it’s, it’s something that I use religiously. Um, you know, it’s not perfect, but right now it’s all we have to work with and it’s something that we, we have to deal with on a monthly basis. And you know, it’s, it’s been a good tool for me uh, you know. So uh, something that I use and I look into. You know, I log into my portal every single day and looking for, you know, inspections.

[4:38] Steve Yeah, and so when you’re talking about CSA and all these other different things, you know, what, what is really a topic that you’ve seen or what is an area that you’ve seen that you just wish more people would focus on?

[4:51] Jay Uh, you know what I’d like to see more focus on the safety side of the business. You know, I really uh, think that we lack in that piece of it as an industry. And uh, I think you know, with especially with the COVID that came about, you know, last year and the all the sacrifices we all had to make, you know, I think that we need to get more data out there to the public and see more focus on, you know, we are a safe company, I mean a safe uh, operation. We are a safe entity, and I just don’t think there’s enough of that out there, you know, with public service announcements or whatever to let the public know that.

[5:30] Steve Yeah, I think that’s a good point you bring up. You know, because we talked a lot about on the podcast as I mentioned at the very beginning, how the trucking industry is one of those who’s really apt and prone to get whacked with these nuclear verdicts, right? Because whether or not the the case facts warrant it, but to your point about whether or not the perception of the trucking industry is being unsafe, and in everybody’s perception about truckers out there not paying attention, falling asleep at the wheel and doing all these different things, I think like you said has probably made your industry more prone to that for people to say, “Yeah, you know what? That, that’s a, that’s an industry it puts profits over safety.” Yup, that’s an industry that’s, it’s not doing the things that it needs to do, and because it’s not, people are getting injured. So now we need to send a message, right? So it feeds right into the reptile theory notions. So I think that’s a good point about getting more focus on safety and getting it out there for people to know that yeah, there’s, there’s some safe truck drivers out there. Is there a bad apples? Yeah, but you got some safe ones out there, right?

[6:33] Jay Yeah, and that’s exactly right, Steve. I mean, you, you brought some very good points there. And you know uh, the industry, we’re not going to sit here and say that we’re, you know, everybody we have is a good person, you know, or you know they’re out there, but we got some bad guys out there, okay? We got some people out there probably shouldn’t even be out there driving. But you know, overall, we have, we have a lot of good people out there working hard each and every day, and they’re safe. And unfortunately, it only takes a small percentage of that, you know, the 80/20 concept, you know, where 20 percent of the industry is spoiling the 80 percent of the rest of the good people, you know, and it gives a bad face to all of us. Unfortunately in, in, in the general public’s eyes and also sometimes in the courts.

[7:19] Steve Yeah, what do you see then really today is kind of the biggest challenge for you and for the trucking industry in general?

[7:27] Jay I’d have to say the biggest challenge is finding good quality drivers that have good backgrounds, clean driving records. It’s very, very difficult. What we have found, we’re a small, we’re a small company, and it’s very difficult for us to hire individuals to get them to come into the door based off of the way that the pay scale is today with the larger corporations and larger, you know, trucking companies. It’s very, very difficult for us as a small company to bring those drivers in. What we attempt to do today, and we’ve been doing it for a while, is we’re attempting to bring our uh, rehires back—drivers that we’ve had work for us that maybe went off and we’re reaching out to them to see if they’d be interested and come back to work for us. Uh, you know, like everybody else we’ve changed our pay scale and we’ve adjusted that. I think it’s, it’s where, you know, it’s very comparable to others in the industry. So that’s something we’re trying to do and get our drivers back, because the longevity means a lot to us. You know, the, the old saying “the longer you have them the better and safer they are,” and I’m a firm believer in that.

[8:32] Steve Excellent. You know, and one of the things we’ve also talked about too is on this podcast is we’ve talked a lot about with the defense attorneys and how the defense attorneys prep cases and get ready for cases for trial. You know, from your perspective in, in your role as a Senior Safety and Risk Manager, you know, what do you, what is something that you thought, “Hey, if I had an opportunity to to talk to a defense attorney and they came to ask me and they said Jay, what do I need to know? What is the most important thing I need to know when I’m getting ready to come work up this case?” What would you say to him is the most important thing in your opinion?

[9:07] Jay You know, Steve, what I, what I think I would say to them is: get educated on the business. Get educated in the business. I mean whether it’s going to a, you know, through a truck driving school, whatever it may be, get that education. Know what the business is all about, what our industry is all about, and the kind of people that we have, you know, that work in this business day-to-day. And to, you know, company I worked for, I went, I was in court three different times. And uh, you know, we, we won two of the cases and lost one, and we shouldn’t even lost that one, but it is what it is. And uh, you know, but I would really like to think about, going back to your question, is to get the defense attorneys more educated on the business, the trucking business, and what it’s all about.

[9:52] Steve I think it’s a good point. I’ve seen, I’ve seen things where nowadays plaintiff attorney firms are actually sending their attorneys to what’s almost like a trucking school, so they can learn the ins and outs of the truck. And that way they can have a better idea, you know, of places of attack, right? If you don’t know the business and you don’t know how to work up a case because you don’t know the business, then it puts you at a disadvantage. But if from a plaintiff’s perspective and you know about hours of service violations or you know about all these other aspects, it makes it a lot easier to try to work up a case to try to get a nuclear verdict and try to do all these different things like you said to talk about showing profits over safety. But on the flip side for the defense counsel too, right? It helps them to know the ins and outs as well so that they’re just as skilled and up-to-date as as plaintiff counsel. You know, I’ve worked with some other transportation firms and I know there’s an attorney I work with who’s been doing this for a very long time, and I think he can cite the handbook better than half the employees, you know? He knows all the different things and he can use all the terminology and the lingo that these operators are using or these other, you know, staff are using. He can use it just as if he was one of their employees. And I think to your point, one, it makes him more knowledgeable on defending the case, and then two, it builds his credibility, right? With his witnesses. Because now they say, “Okay, this guy gets it. This guy understands our business. This guy can speak and talk to lingo.” It just makes your life that easier, right? From, from a defense attorney perspective. So I think that’s a good point to talk about, and we’ve been harping on that too and I’ve talked to a lot of attorneys and they seem to point to the same thing you’re saying about learn the business, learn the business, whatever it is. So I think, I think that was a great insightful thought of you there to point that out. You know, and you mentioned about how you had gone to trial before, and there’s a couple different times you went to trial and there was an outcome. As we know, I’ve talked about it before, that nuclear verdicts are a very real possibility for the trucking industry. You know, what is your level of concern about nuclear verdicts and you know, and what is it that you’re doing to help prevent those from happening?

[11:58] Jay Well, my thought on it, Steve, is is, you know, it’s a shame. You know, years ago we didn’t have, have these kind of verdicts like we do today. You didn’t see it on TV, you didn’t see it on the billboards as you drive through the different uh, metroplexes and out on the road. You just didn’t see that, you know, “if you’re hit by a truck, call Chuck” type thing. And it’s unfortunate, you know. And what, what I’ve done and what I’ve been doing for quite some time is trying to screen our drivers coming in the best we can. We road test every single one of our drivers. We take them out and we, we do about an hour to hour and a half road test with them, about 25-30 miles. And we look at the background like everybody else. We screen them and uh, you know, anything questionable in there, we’re certainly going to bring it up with the driver. But we have to do, as safety directors and safety managers in the safety industry, we have to do our due diligence in this business. You know, I mean, you could, you can get on TV anytime of the day just about, you see some lawyer on there wanting to sue you. And if you have a truck accident, you know, I always tell drivers: “if you look at those commercials, the person that collected that 400, 500 thousand, you don’t see one tear in their eye when they get that check from the attorney,” right? So you know, that’s something that I use and I, in my orientation and I, I really bring it up and hammer on it with the drivers. That not only can a company be sued, but they can be sued as individuals. And uh, you know, it’s not to put the fear factor in them, but to create the awareness.

[13:28] Steve Yeah, I think you know, pointing out the fact that they could be sued as individuals. I don’t know how a lot of witnesses may not understand that, and when they’re going into a deposition, if they’re being sued, then all of a sudden that shock factor of, “Well, I’m being named individually,” then all of a sudden it shoots their emotionality, it shoots their stress, their anxiety, all that stuff through the roof. And then, you know, when we’re working with them and training them, that’s one of the things we have to overcome first before we do anything else, is this shock of, “Oh my god, I’m actually being sued individually.” So I think that’s, that’s good. You know, and you’re talking about how talking about the industry and whether or not you’re talking all the billboards, all the different things that are out there for plaintiff firms that are looking to get people to sue the trucking industry. We’re hopefully on the back end of COVID-19 and you know, we’re hopefully getting back to a sense of normalcy. But from your perspective, what did you see? Did you see from COVID-19, from pre-COVID at the height of it, to kind of where we’re at now, has has the industry changed? Has perceptions of truck drivers changed in the industry?

[14:40] Jay Well he knows, Steve, I hope it has. I, I think it has. You know, I, I, I think it’s created a very good awareness with the public of what the trucking industry does and how important trucking is to us, you know? And how important it is to this country and to the world. I mean, you know, look at, look at the shortages we had in the stores, in the grocery stores. Water, toilet paper, essential everyday essentials that we use, people didn’t have and it created a very big panic with folks. And I think, you know, I’d like to think and I hope it did create a very good awareness to the public that things like this can happen, and it doesn’t get there unless a truck brings it, you know? And it takes a truck driver to drive that truck to get it delivered to the dock to get it stocked on the shelves. And uh, we were very fortunate in our case. We had very few drivers that had any problems with the COVID. Uh, you know, we, we did all of our due diligence and making sure we had all the proper PPE available to them. And they went out there and did the job. And uh, I think, I think the public has really seen a little different view of what our industry is about.

[15:52] Steve Do you think it’s something though that you guys should take your foot off the gas, or do you think you should even push forward? I mean I’ve seen, I’ve seen one I can think of where it’s actually a sign—it’s a small sign on the side of the road as you’re headed towards Houston, and it’s like right on a person’s property. It says, you know, “thank you truckers for all that you do.” But is that enough? Or do you, do you think the trucking industry needs to start doing more? Buying their own billboards, putting their own commercials up there of, you know, just getting it out to the public like, “Hey, don’t forget when you needed that toilet paper who brought it to you.”

[16:24] Jay No, I think you’re absolutely correct. And you know, I think what we need to do in my opinion is we need to be—the industry itself needs to get more of the positive aspects of what we do out to the general public. Whether through public service announcing, announcements on TV, social media. I mean, there’s all kinds of outlets out there available to us to do that and show the positive aspects of our business. “Hey, you know, if you, if you bought groceries then thank your trucker,” you know? Because that’s the guy that did it, you know? He, he’s the guys in that truck and they’re very, very tough jobs to do on a day-to-day basis. And you know, it’s very important to get that message out there. I think we, we need as an industry to do more to get that message out. Like you said, that small sign—well hey, let’s create a billboard, let’s, let’s put it on TV instead of these negative ads by these, these plaintiff’s attorneys want to come after us because we’re the low-hanging fruit, if you will, to them. Let’s counteract that with something positive and come back and show them what we’re really about.

[17:25] Steve Yeah, you said low-hanging fruit. Do you, do you see, going back to nuclear verdicts, do you see the trucking industry as a low-hanging fruit? You see those are the ones who are more susceptible or just easy targets for these nuclear verdicts and litigation?

[17:39] Jay I do. And the reason I say that is because if you look, there are companies out there that have gone out of business because of these nuclear verdicts. There’s several out there right now that have major, major dollar amounts attached to them—millions and millions of dollars. And you know, I think there’s companies out there that, that, you know, they look at this and, “Well is it worth fighting or should I just go ahead and write the check?” You know, going back as I alluded to earlier, the court cases I was in, you know, I was very fortunate to work for an owner that, that fought. And like I said, we should have won all three. Unfortunately we didn’t, but the third one was a substantial amount of money uh, that was awarded. It wasn’t what they were asking, but it was still a substantial amount of money that was awarded to that person. And uh, yeah I think these nuclear verdicts in my opinion are just overrated. I mean, I think they’re just going after us, you know, as uh, “well we’re gonna sue you,” you know? And I, I know Texas has changed and the law’s changing where now it’s a little different than what it used to be where they just, you know, pick and choose who they want to sue. Uh, there’s a little more to it now, a little more, a few more steps that have to be taken for that perceived process to take place. But you know, the bottom line, just when I see these commercials, Steve, it really, it really hurts me to know that they, they’re painting this broad, this picture with this broad brush of this industry. Oh, we’re just a lot of, you know, outlaw truckers out there and we’re not a safe entity.

[19:06] Steve Yeah. No, good point. Jay, I appreciate the time. I want to wrap up. You know, if you had one thing that you wanted to let the, let the listeners know, let other people know about the trucking industry that maybe gets overlooked—I think you’ve mentioned it a little bit here—but what would be kind of your one concise elevator speech, 30 second? What do we need to know about the trucking industry?

[19:29] Jay But what I can say is let’s get the positive aspect of our business out there. Hire the right people. You know, just don’t hire seat warmers. Don’t put a driver in the truck that you don’t feel is going to be safe just to generate that x amount of dollars for that month of revenue, because it can certainly, you know, completely kick you in the butt later on if something, if he has a crash. But do your due diligence. Do your due diligence. Anybody in safety, you know, do your due diligence, get the positive aspect out there. And, and we got to paint that positive picture to the public because I think like you said, Steve, we talked about the COVID, let’s get back to that. Let’s get, show the public that hey, we are, we are a safe, safe industry for the most part. We do a good job, we work hard. But uh, you know, as a safety manager I can tell you we have to continually, continually be on top of the business and be on top of what we’re doing and making sure we’re compliant with everything we do.

[20:29] Steve Right. Jay, I appreciate the time. If somebody wants to get a hold of you, talk to you more, talk to you about any other topics, how do they get a hold of you?

[20:37] Jay Well, my email address is jblobner@itstrucks.com. That’s the letter J.

[20:46] Steve Great. Now I can be reached to swood@courtroomsciences.com. We have a lot of content—podcasts, blogs, other materials—up on courtroomsciences.com. I encourage you to go take a peek at it. This has been another edition of the Litigation Psychology Podcast, brought to you by Courtroom Sciences Inc. Thanks for joining.